Why did I start doign Games Computer Games ? I used to blog about gaming on Giantbomb, I wanted to reach a broader audience with Games Computer Games than I thought Giantbomb would allow me.
Where is Games Computer Games going now? Well to be honest I don't know, as an aging veteran gamer, I don't have the sort of gaming time I expected to have when I started Games Computer Games. In reality having two young children has somewhat hampered my time to write on Games Computer Games.
One thing I have decided is come what may, Games Computer Games will not be abandoned. Games Computer Games may become a refuge or otehr mid-thirties gamers who need somewhere to moan about how they don't have time to game any more.
Certainly I think the Left 4 Dead advice I've provided here on Games Computer Games is pretty good. I don't suppose Games Computer Games is a good name for a site if it's just about Left 4 Dead though?
I will broaden the horizon of Games Computer Games - Smokemare will ride again! I don't know what Christmas will bring - traditionally I get at least one game - even if I don't get time to play it. I still have to plough through LA Noire when I get time.... And that's from June!
The trouble is - as I've said before on Games Computer Games, I'm finding ahcievement hunting on Left 4 Dead games more fun... As I said in my Duke Nukem Games Computer Games post - volunteering for anaethetic-free pile surgery would probably be more fun than playing Duke Forever...
I still can't believe how it destroyed my joy of gaming!
My advice, the official 'Games Computer Games' advice for any long suffering wives out there who have lost their huspands to the XBOX - get him Duke Nukem Forever...
Friday 25 November 2011
Friday 18 November 2011
Left 4 Dead : What Are You Trying to Prove?
Well, I decided to take a break from Left 4 Dead 2, namely to go back and mop up some achievements on Left 4 Dead.
One which has been eluding me is 'What Are You Trying to Prove?' I got No Mercy a long long time ago - using the Jesus Room, then recently I mopped up the last few. The hardest one was Blood Harvest - in the end I had to resort to a trick.
For anyone stuck on this here are my tips.
General Tips:-
--------------
1. Find out all the tricks for the level you are trying to do - You Tube isn't a bad source. Try several of them.
2. If you aren't using a trick - closet camp for the horde, then rush out into the open for the tanks.
3. Try to have pipe bombs and molotovs spare for the dash to the rescue vehicle.
4. When going through the normal campaigns - have the person with an Auto Shotgun take out the witches - Expert dumps several of them right in your path. The trick is to not start shooting while she is invulnerable - then shoot as fast as possible point blank to the head as she becomes vulnerable. It's easy on easy, but witch killing on Expert takes some practice.
5. When dealing with tanks, campaign or finale, either kite or light - never both. The tank is faster when it's on fire - as is the witch. If you set him on fire you start to bleed his health and you don't need to shoot - you can run slightly faster running forwards if he's not on fire and you are healthy you should be able to kite him if you can dodge the thrown rocks.
6. Keep your bots alive - bots are very good at killing specials, if they DO get pounced - then rescue them straight away as on Expert the specials do incredible damage.
7. Save First Aid Kits - try to survive on pills, you should ideally only be using FA in safe rooms and at the finale.
8. The tricks:-
1. No Mercy [The Jesus Room].
On this one - in the centre of the roof top is a little square room with stairs going up to a door. It does NOT open in Survival Mode, ONLY campaign. (The door I mean) What you need to do is get on top above the door and survive until the infect break the door. Only infected can break the door - once it's broken - get inside and stand back from the door - make sure you don't go Idle.
When the chopper is ready - throw a pipe bomb and run.
2. Death Toll [The Jesus Rock].
Ideally have everyone grab sniper rifles or Assault Rifles. Try to have everyone grab a grenade of some sort - at least two of you should have a pipe bomb. There is no ammo on the jesus rock - so load up - try to have doubvle pistols and use them on the infected as much as possible.
Now leave the boathouse and walk along the shore past where you catch the boat - there is a little flat rock at the end of the beach. To get on take a running leap from about 2 metres aaway - and as you hit the rock hit jump again. Once four of you are up there - whoever is mos confident about getting up should go back and alert the hoarde, then try to rush back and jump on. Once all four of you are up there have two people use double pistols and melee to keep the infected from climbing onto the rock the same way you came - the other two should watch the water where most Smokers appear and can drag you off the rock. You can shoot the tank, save your rifle ammo for it - but be more concerned about shooting the rocks he throws at you. Be ready to get hunters off people.
When the boat turns up - throw your pipe bombs and run.
3. Dead Air. [The Jesus Plane]
I didn't use this - I had a good team, but I'll explain how it works in case you need it.
From the nose of the rescue plane there is a truck straight ahead, facing the truck, to the right of the truck is luggage trolley. Get gas cans or petrol cans and go behind the luggage trolley - then throw them at it and run into them - you are trying to knock it over! Eventually it'll go and you can push it so it's in between the truck and the nose of the plane. Then keep moving it a bit - then trying it - it's a tricky jump - has to be done like the Jesus Rock jump, but you jump off the truck onto the luggage trolley, then off the trolley onto the nose of the plane. Once you are all up - let the most confident jumper go alert the hoarde. Then crouch in the centre between the wings and melee each other (Smokers can get you - this provides protection) When the ramp opens - throw your pipe bombs, drop down and rush in.
Alternatively you can hold up on the hill - you have to be able to defend against the horde here - but tanks are easy, they tend to get stuck behind the plane and you can shoot their legs underneath. If this happens rush close to the plane so he can't find a way around.
4. Blood Harvest.
Easily the hardest finale, if you get to the farmhouse intact - load up on pipe bombs, molotovs, weapons, first aid and ammo. If you have a decent team and want to play it straight then either hold up in the barn, or the upstairs washroom. When the tank comes - get out in the open and kite him around the house.
If you need to use the trick , follow the fence outside the front of the house to the left. Eventually you find a broken up bit that is impassible with corrugated iron and barbed wire, and a couple of tree stumps. This is where the secret invisible walkway is. You jump as high as you can - not as if you are trying to land on the closest stump - but BEFORE the stup - you should end up suspended in the air. Then walk parallel to the fence towards the bankside and jump to get up. Once up, follow the ledge around to the lone tree on the edge of the map. Crouch, don't go idle - and send the most confident one to alert the hoarde.
When the vehicle arrives, throw your bombs and leg it towards the barn. Be aware a hunter and smoker might be waiting for you.
So what next?
My final achievements are all doable on easy - safety first, nothing special and untouchables. So I'll be taking a break from Expert mode - which I'll miss, it forces you to play in a different way - it's very unforgiving, but it's also very exciting.
After I've S-ranked Left 4 Dead I'm going to Left 4 Dead 2 to mop up some of those. The last one I got was ' The Real Deal ' but I still need to get 'Still got something top prove?' and some of the other little ones. I also need the zombie genocide achievement and red mist, but I'll get those just by playing.
After that I guess I'll play multiplayer exclusively apart from helping others. The campaigns are great - but they take a while and it's good to have a goal in mind when you are working through them.
Reflections and shout outs.
Playing Left 4 Dead and the sequel, on Expert for quite a while now has given me a new appreciation for the game. I have to give credit for an XBOX Live player - Unworthy Leopard who helped me with Blood Harvest immensely and sacrificed himself to the waiting Hunter so I could escape. Originally I was going to try to do ' The Real Deal ' with my wifes cousings teenage daughter Heather Harding and my Gaming Journalist estranged buddy Neil Ginx who is a presenter for a video gaming tv channel called Ginx.
But the thing is, no disrespect - Heather and Neil aren't really playing at the same level. To that end they are playing the same game. In Neil's case it's probably down to the fact that he's got to play the latest releases so he can talk about them - he isn't going to be able to spend time playing an ancient game even if he wanted to - his very spread out 36,000 gamer points are good indicator of his playing habits.
In Heather's case, she just isn't really a game, a paltry 3000 gamer points, fairly spread out... I don't think she's playing anything at the moment. At the time they just happened to be the only two people on my friends list who had Left 4 Dead 2.
You can have a lot of fun playing a game like Left 4 Dead, most people probably finish the campaigns on normal, get some achievements, play a smattering of multiplayer - then move on. But in some respects these people are missing out. The dynamics and inticacies of the game change as you get past the casual player barrier.
In many respects, playing either game on Expert, particularly Expert Realism on part 2 is NOT fun, it is incredibly challenging. I'd put it up there with all any gaming challenge to get 'The Real Deal'. 'You got something to prove' is though - only 3% of Giantbombs 17000 players who own the game have it. The equivalent in the sequel is even less got - only 2%. The Real Deal only involves one campaign - but less than 3.5% have it?
Changing from Normal to Expert Realism is like changing games, it forces you to change the way you play. On Normal, the horde are a bit of a hinderance that tries to wear you down or pin you while a special gets on top of you. In Expert they are a serious threat. A Normal infected does 1% of damage per hit, so 5 infected charging up and whacking you drops you to 95% from healthy? An Expert infected deals 20% with a hit to the front or 10% to the back - so the same 5 running up and hitting you in the face will incap you. Suddenly stopping the infected getting a hit in is critical - whereas before it didn't really matter.
They are also far harder to kill. A shot with any gun anywhere on a normal infected will probably drop it - most guns take several hits on Expert, on Realism, the hits should really be to the head for them to be effective. Tanks, incap in one hit from 100% health too - and kill in about three... The witch insta-kills. If you are on Realism there are no hero closets, you only respawn at the next safe room.
The general picture is that the game can quickly become frustratingly difficult, the slightest thing going wrong at the wrong time can ruin it for even an excellent team.
It can be very frustrating... But very exciting too!
I wonder how many people play, how many games past the 'casual point' ? I know I enjoyed Gears of War 1 & 2 but I never played them to death, I enjoyed the story more than the game mechanics... I played Street Fighter 2 to a silly level past Casual... Some games are meant to be played until they've run dry... And some games just don't have that level of play within them... I'm talkig about the Super Mario ' Lost Levels' Level, the bit that isn't really designed for the casual player. It strikes me that the developers who write in the 'challenge' level of gameplay must be very optimistic about the popularity of their title.
I don't think it's good commercial sense either. People pay £40 for a game, if that game suddenly absorbs a player completely and they don't bother buying or playing anything else - then that's one down for the gaming market? I think the high challenge sections of games are written in by developers because they know games, they love games and they write them not for profit - but to create something, to create an experience that the people love and hate to drag themselves away from. They want to create difficult challenges that people want to attempt to beat, because they enjoy the challenge.
I suppose a casual gamer probably can't understand this - getting wiped within 10 seconds of stating a campaign isn't fun... But for some of us, we recognise that it can be done - and as soon as we do, we have to do it, we have to find out how we can do it... And we do it..
One which has been eluding me is 'What Are You Trying to Prove?' I got No Mercy a long long time ago - using the Jesus Room, then recently I mopped up the last few. The hardest one was Blood Harvest - in the end I had to resort to a trick.
For anyone stuck on this here are my tips.
General Tips:-
--------------
1. Find out all the tricks for the level you are trying to do - You Tube isn't a bad source. Try several of them.
2. If you aren't using a trick - closet camp for the horde, then rush out into the open for the tanks.
3. Try to have pipe bombs and molotovs spare for the dash to the rescue vehicle.
4. When going through the normal campaigns - have the person with an Auto Shotgun take out the witches - Expert dumps several of them right in your path. The trick is to not start shooting while she is invulnerable - then shoot as fast as possible point blank to the head as she becomes vulnerable. It's easy on easy, but witch killing on Expert takes some practice.
5. When dealing with tanks, campaign or finale, either kite or light - never both. The tank is faster when it's on fire - as is the witch. If you set him on fire you start to bleed his health and you don't need to shoot - you can run slightly faster running forwards if he's not on fire and you are healthy you should be able to kite him if you can dodge the thrown rocks.
6. Keep your bots alive - bots are very good at killing specials, if they DO get pounced - then rescue them straight away as on Expert the specials do incredible damage.
7. Save First Aid Kits - try to survive on pills, you should ideally only be using FA in safe rooms and at the finale.
8. The tricks:-
1. No Mercy [The Jesus Room].
On this one - in the centre of the roof top is a little square room with stairs going up to a door. It does NOT open in Survival Mode, ONLY campaign. (The door I mean) What you need to do is get on top above the door and survive until the infect break the door. Only infected can break the door - once it's broken - get inside and stand back from the door - make sure you don't go Idle.
When the chopper is ready - throw a pipe bomb and run.
2. Death Toll [The Jesus Rock].
Ideally have everyone grab sniper rifles or Assault Rifles. Try to have everyone grab a grenade of some sort - at least two of you should have a pipe bomb. There is no ammo on the jesus rock - so load up - try to have doubvle pistols and use them on the infected as much as possible.
Now leave the boathouse and walk along the shore past where you catch the boat - there is a little flat rock at the end of the beach. To get on take a running leap from about 2 metres aaway - and as you hit the rock hit jump again. Once four of you are up there - whoever is mos confident about getting up should go back and alert the hoarde, then try to rush back and jump on. Once all four of you are up there have two people use double pistols and melee to keep the infected from climbing onto the rock the same way you came - the other two should watch the water where most Smokers appear and can drag you off the rock. You can shoot the tank, save your rifle ammo for it - but be more concerned about shooting the rocks he throws at you. Be ready to get hunters off people.
When the boat turns up - throw your pipe bombs and run.
3. Dead Air. [The Jesus Plane]
I didn't use this - I had a good team, but I'll explain how it works in case you need it.
From the nose of the rescue plane there is a truck straight ahead, facing the truck, to the right of the truck is luggage trolley. Get gas cans or petrol cans and go behind the luggage trolley - then throw them at it and run into them - you are trying to knock it over! Eventually it'll go and you can push it so it's in between the truck and the nose of the plane. Then keep moving it a bit - then trying it - it's a tricky jump - has to be done like the Jesus Rock jump, but you jump off the truck onto the luggage trolley, then off the trolley onto the nose of the plane. Once you are all up - let the most confident jumper go alert the hoarde. Then crouch in the centre between the wings and melee each other (Smokers can get you - this provides protection) When the ramp opens - throw your pipe bombs, drop down and rush in.
Alternatively you can hold up on the hill - you have to be able to defend against the horde here - but tanks are easy, they tend to get stuck behind the plane and you can shoot their legs underneath. If this happens rush close to the plane so he can't find a way around.
4. Blood Harvest.
Easily the hardest finale, if you get to the farmhouse intact - load up on pipe bombs, molotovs, weapons, first aid and ammo. If you have a decent team and want to play it straight then either hold up in the barn, or the upstairs washroom. When the tank comes - get out in the open and kite him around the house.
If you need to use the trick , follow the fence outside the front of the house to the left. Eventually you find a broken up bit that is impassible with corrugated iron and barbed wire, and a couple of tree stumps. This is where the secret invisible walkway is. You jump as high as you can - not as if you are trying to land on the closest stump - but BEFORE the stup - you should end up suspended in the air. Then walk parallel to the fence towards the bankside and jump to get up. Once up, follow the ledge around to the lone tree on the edge of the map. Crouch, don't go idle - and send the most confident one to alert the hoarde.
When the vehicle arrives, throw your bombs and leg it towards the barn. Be aware a hunter and smoker might be waiting for you.
So what next?
My final achievements are all doable on easy - safety first, nothing special and untouchables. So I'll be taking a break from Expert mode - which I'll miss, it forces you to play in a different way - it's very unforgiving, but it's also very exciting.
After I've S-ranked Left 4 Dead I'm going to Left 4 Dead 2 to mop up some of those. The last one I got was ' The Real Deal ' but I still need to get 'Still got something top prove?' and some of the other little ones. I also need the zombie genocide achievement and red mist, but I'll get those just by playing.
After that I guess I'll play multiplayer exclusively apart from helping others. The campaigns are great - but they take a while and it's good to have a goal in mind when you are working through them.
Reflections and shout outs.
Playing Left 4 Dead and the sequel, on Expert for quite a while now has given me a new appreciation for the game. I have to give credit for an XBOX Live player - Unworthy Leopard who helped me with Blood Harvest immensely and sacrificed himself to the waiting Hunter so I could escape. Originally I was going to try to do ' The Real Deal ' with my wifes cousings teenage daughter Heather Harding and my Gaming Journalist estranged buddy Neil Ginx who is a presenter for a video gaming tv channel called Ginx.
But the thing is, no disrespect - Heather and Neil aren't really playing at the same level. To that end they are playing the same game. In Neil's case it's probably down to the fact that he's got to play the latest releases so he can talk about them - he isn't going to be able to spend time playing an ancient game even if he wanted to - his very spread out 36,000 gamer points are good indicator of his playing habits.
In Heather's case, she just isn't really a game, a paltry 3000 gamer points, fairly spread out... I don't think she's playing anything at the moment. At the time they just happened to be the only two people on my friends list who had Left 4 Dead 2.
You can have a lot of fun playing a game like Left 4 Dead, most people probably finish the campaigns on normal, get some achievements, play a smattering of multiplayer - then move on. But in some respects these people are missing out. The dynamics and inticacies of the game change as you get past the casual player barrier.
In many respects, playing either game on Expert, particularly Expert Realism on part 2 is NOT fun, it is incredibly challenging. I'd put it up there with all any gaming challenge to get 'The Real Deal'. 'You got something to prove' is though - only 3% of Giantbombs 17000 players who own the game have it. The equivalent in the sequel is even less got - only 2%. The Real Deal only involves one campaign - but less than 3.5% have it?
Changing from Normal to Expert Realism is like changing games, it forces you to change the way you play. On Normal, the horde are a bit of a hinderance that tries to wear you down or pin you while a special gets on top of you. In Expert they are a serious threat. A Normal infected does 1% of damage per hit, so 5 infected charging up and whacking you drops you to 95% from healthy? An Expert infected deals 20% with a hit to the front or 10% to the back - so the same 5 running up and hitting you in the face will incap you. Suddenly stopping the infected getting a hit in is critical - whereas before it didn't really matter.
They are also far harder to kill. A shot with any gun anywhere on a normal infected will probably drop it - most guns take several hits on Expert, on Realism, the hits should really be to the head for them to be effective. Tanks, incap in one hit from 100% health too - and kill in about three... The witch insta-kills. If you are on Realism there are no hero closets, you only respawn at the next safe room.
The general picture is that the game can quickly become frustratingly difficult, the slightest thing going wrong at the wrong time can ruin it for even an excellent team.
It can be very frustrating... But very exciting too!
I wonder how many people play, how many games past the 'casual point' ? I know I enjoyed Gears of War 1 & 2 but I never played them to death, I enjoyed the story more than the game mechanics... I played Street Fighter 2 to a silly level past Casual... Some games are meant to be played until they've run dry... And some games just don't have that level of play within them... I'm talkig about the Super Mario ' Lost Levels' Level, the bit that isn't really designed for the casual player. It strikes me that the developers who write in the 'challenge' level of gameplay must be very optimistic about the popularity of their title.
I don't think it's good commercial sense either. People pay £40 for a game, if that game suddenly absorbs a player completely and they don't bother buying or playing anything else - then that's one down for the gaming market? I think the high challenge sections of games are written in by developers because they know games, they love games and they write them not for profit - but to create something, to create an experience that the people love and hate to drag themselves away from. They want to create difficult challenges that people want to attempt to beat, because they enjoy the challenge.
I suppose a casual gamer probably can't understand this - getting wiped within 10 seconds of stating a campaign isn't fun... But for some of us, we recognise that it can be done - and as soon as we do, we have to do it, we have to find out how we can do it... And we do it..
Monday 14 November 2011
Left 4 Dead 3 : The Griefer Solution.
Okay,
So I was trying to finally finish 'You got something to prove?' on Left 4 Dead last night, on the XBOX360. Everything was going okay, I only had a reasonably good team - and with dropouts there tended to always be one bot on side.
We got through though... Until the final part, the bit with the finale in. Now one of our team had had to leave, two folks joined... And proceeded to kill the survivors. Not cool - unusually they were seperate XBOX Live accounts - not two griefers on split-screen on one XBOX.
This persisted for quite some time, in the end I ran out of time and couldn't finish the level. It posed something of a problem - originally I thought the solution to the griefer situation was to only allow one vote per XBOX, so two split screen players would only get one vote.
In this case that would NOT have worked.
I was thinking about an alternative, and I think it could be weight of vote. The way this works is it rewards good play with weight of vote, and griefing with a reduction in weight of vote.
So I would suggest a system something like:-
1. Started the lobby : + 300 weight of vote.
2. Joined at the lobby stage : + 200 weight of vote.
3. Completed the a section part of a campaign : + (100 x Sections have completed) WOV. So it you if go from lobby to end of section 2, you got 100 WOV for the first part, then 200 for the second part - total 300 WOV. If you joined in the second but stay until the end you get 100 WOV. If you joined in the first then stay to the last part you get 100 + 200 + 300 + 400 WOV (1100 total) This represents an investment you made in the play session.
4. Damaged the tank : + (damage dealt to tank/100)
5. Damaged the witch : + (damage dealt to witch/100)
6. Killed an infect : + 1 WOV
7. Healed a survivor : + 10 WOV
8. Revived a survivor : + 5 WOV
9. Gave pills to a survivor : + 2 WOV
10. Dealt friendly fire : - 100 WOV per incident.
11. Incapped a survivor : - 1000 WOV per incident.
12. Killed a survivor : - 1000 WOV per incident.
13. Got kicked from this session : - 1000 WOV.
So what does this do? It means anyone griefing basically has to do it in the first couple of sections of a campaign - and if you play well, they'll struggle to do this. Say you and a friend make it to part 3 of a campaign. You might acrue the following:-
You:-
-------
1. Started the lobby : + 300 weight of vote.
2. Completed one section : + 100 WOV
3. Complete the second section : + 200 WOV
4. Killed 120 infected : + 120 WOV
5. Dealt 2100 Damage to the tank : + 210 WOV
6. Revived 4 survivors: + 20 WOV
7. Gave pills once : + 2 WOV
Total = 952 WOV.
Your friend:-
1. Joined at the lobby stage : + 200 weight of vote.
2. Completed one section : + 100 WOV
3. Complete the second section : + 200 WOV
4. Killed 117 infected : + 117 WOV
5. Dealt 1150 Damage to the tank : + 115 WOV
6. Revived 2 survivors: + 10 WOV
7. Gave pills twice : + 4 WOV
Total = 746 WOV.
Now Johhny griefer and his friend join the game, play through one campaign section and then proceed to start griefing.
They might get 100 for the camapaign section they do, and maybe 100 infected and 100 tank dam WOV each. Maybe a bit more? That means they will acquire 400 or so WOV each if they play properly and help out a bit - 0r 800 in total?
Now as it stands you and your buddy have much more time invested in the game, so it's right that you should be able to vote them off. Which you could do as you would have at least another 400 WOV at the the of that campaign section each.
At the same time, so long as they're half decent, they'd be be better than bots? So you let them stay! Now they decide to grief you - one of them shoots you, incaps you and kills you - straight away they are in the negative, they can be voted off immediately.
They come back? Well they need to find another game, because you can vote them straight off again!
Now if the reverse happened and the two who joined first were griefers, yes they could vote joiners out easily - but then the joiners can start their own campaign and have the protection that gives them. If the griefers decide to start killing the joiners - then very quickly the joiners will usurp them as the ones with the authority over the campaign as they are playing the game as intended.
I think a system like this would not only be beneficial, but is needed - if it can't be patched into Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, then it should be in Left 4 Dead 3. In extreme scenarios - as the system is now, you can be 90% through a campaign, have some assholes join and grief so much your buddy gets frustrated and leaves, then vote you out and quit - losing all your time invested with very little defence about it apart from the rather limited XBX Live Feedback system.
So I was trying to finally finish 'You got something to prove?' on Left 4 Dead last night, on the XBOX360. Everything was going okay, I only had a reasonably good team - and with dropouts there tended to always be one bot on side.
We got through though... Until the final part, the bit with the finale in. Now one of our team had had to leave, two folks joined... And proceeded to kill the survivors. Not cool - unusually they were seperate XBOX Live accounts - not two griefers on split-screen on one XBOX.
This persisted for quite some time, in the end I ran out of time and couldn't finish the level. It posed something of a problem - originally I thought the solution to the griefer situation was to only allow one vote per XBOX, so two split screen players would only get one vote.
In this case that would NOT have worked.
I was thinking about an alternative, and I think it could be weight of vote. The way this works is it rewards good play with weight of vote, and griefing with a reduction in weight of vote.
So I would suggest a system something like:-
1. Started the lobby : + 300 weight of vote.
2. Joined at the lobby stage : + 200 weight of vote.
3. Completed the a section part of a campaign : + (100 x Sections have completed) WOV. So it you if go from lobby to end of section 2, you got 100 WOV for the first part, then 200 for the second part - total 300 WOV. If you joined in the second but stay until the end you get 100 WOV. If you joined in the first then stay to the last part you get 100 + 200 + 300 + 400 WOV (1100 total) This represents an investment you made in the play session.
4. Damaged the tank : + (damage dealt to tank/100)
5. Damaged the witch : + (damage dealt to witch/100)
6. Killed an infect : + 1 WOV
7. Healed a survivor : + 10 WOV
8. Revived a survivor : + 5 WOV
9. Gave pills to a survivor : + 2 WOV
10. Dealt friendly fire : - 100 WOV per incident.
11. Incapped a survivor : - 1000 WOV per incident.
12. Killed a survivor : - 1000 WOV per incident.
13. Got kicked from this session : - 1000 WOV.
So what does this do? It means anyone griefing basically has to do it in the first couple of sections of a campaign - and if you play well, they'll struggle to do this. Say you and a friend make it to part 3 of a campaign. You might acrue the following:-
You:-
-------
1. Started the lobby : + 300 weight of vote.
2. Completed one section : + 100 WOV
3. Complete the second section : + 200 WOV
4. Killed 120 infected : + 120 WOV
5. Dealt 2100 Damage to the tank : + 210 WOV
6. Revived 4 survivors: + 20 WOV
7. Gave pills once : + 2 WOV
Total = 952 WOV.
Your friend:-
1. Joined at the lobby stage : + 200 weight of vote.
2. Completed one section : + 100 WOV
3. Complete the second section : + 200 WOV
4. Killed 117 infected : + 117 WOV
5. Dealt 1150 Damage to the tank : + 115 WOV
6. Revived 2 survivors: + 10 WOV
7. Gave pills twice : + 4 WOV
Total = 746 WOV.
Now Johhny griefer and his friend join the game, play through one campaign section and then proceed to start griefing.
They might get 100 for the camapaign section they do, and maybe 100 infected and 100 tank dam WOV each. Maybe a bit more? That means they will acquire 400 or so WOV each if they play properly and help out a bit - 0r 800 in total?
Now as it stands you and your buddy have much more time invested in the game, so it's right that you should be able to vote them off. Which you could do as you would have at least another 400 WOV at the the of that campaign section each.
At the same time, so long as they're half decent, they'd be be better than bots? So you let them stay! Now they decide to grief you - one of them shoots you, incaps you and kills you - straight away they are in the negative, they can be voted off immediately.
They come back? Well they need to find another game, because you can vote them straight off again!
Now if the reverse happened and the two who joined first were griefers, yes they could vote joiners out easily - but then the joiners can start their own campaign and have the protection that gives them. If the griefers decide to start killing the joiners - then very quickly the joiners will usurp them as the ones with the authority over the campaign as they are playing the game as intended.
I think a system like this would not only be beneficial, but is needed - if it can't be patched into Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, then it should be in Left 4 Dead 3. In extreme scenarios - as the system is now, you can be 90% through a campaign, have some assholes join and grief so much your buddy gets frustrated and leaves, then vote you out and quit - losing all your time invested with very little defence about it apart from the rather limited XBX Live Feedback system.
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